Finding Peace in Transition with Death Doula Helen Gretchen Jones

What if you could find peace in life's most challenging moments? Join us for an enlightening conversation with Gretchen Jones, a compassionate death doula, as she shares her profound insights into the journey from life to death. Gretchen offers a deeply moving exploration of the physical and spiritual aspects of dying, providing invaluable support to terminally ill individuals and their families. Learn to recognize the early signs of transition and how they can guide us in offering compassion and understanding during these emotional times.

Our journey doesn't end with death; connections persist beyond the grave. Explore how spiritual awareness can provide comfort and how acts of kindness and support groups can ease the burden of grief. Gretchen's personal experiences, including her work as a death doula and her book "Healing Whispers from Spirit Guides," offer a beacon of hope. From spiritual connections to mediumship, we delve into the ways our loved ones reach out to us, affirming that they continue to be with us in spirit, offering solace and reassurance.

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Chapters

• 0:06 Journey Through Transition With Gretchen
• 13:05 Navigating Anger and Connection in Hospice
• 18:50 Final Weeks Before Transition in Hospice
• 31:20 Connections Beyond Death
• 39:52 Connecting With Deceased Loved Ones
• 49:34 Support Through Small Acts of Kindness
• 52:40 Healing Through Mediumship and Connection

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:06

Welcome to Empowered Within, a soul-quenching, transformational podcast that will set your soul on fire. Through candid and inspiring conversations, leading experts, celebrities, healers and I share our journeys of how we've overcome challenges to living an empowered life from within. I'm your host, jennifer Pilates. Welcome to another episode of Empowered Within. Hi there and welcome to the show. I am so excited to welcome back our amazing guest, gretchen Jones. Gretchen is a compassionate death doula, intuitive and channeler who writes about shared death experiences and spiritual consciousness. Her work focuses on fostering connections with oneself and others, trusting personal experiences and teaching. Her spirit guides the A-Team With a dual master's in art history and theology. Helen Gretchen is certified in sound bowl therapy, reiki, hypnosis and past life regressions. She also teaches seminars on grounding techniques and interpreting signs from spirit. When not working, she enjoys time with her family on their ranch, with her husband Taylor and their children Ty and Elle, surrounded by a variety of animals. Welcome back to the show, Gretchen. I'm so excited for today.

Speaker 2: 1:29

Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be back.

Speaker 1: 1:32

Yeah. So, for those of you who are just popping in, we have a series going with Gretchen, and so today's episode is all about what does it look like when someone is transitioning from the physical, spiritual aspect of life, because that's something that we felt was very important after our first podcast episode to dive a little deeper, to help people to understand because it can be such a confusing, emotional time and perhaps, with Gretchen being able to help enlighten us all, and perhaps, with Gretchen being able to help enlighten us all, there may be more compassion and grace that can go around. To begin, gretchen, will you just highlight, for those who don't know what a death doula is, what that is and how your work has impacted so many people.

Speaker 2: 2:19

So as a death doula. Doula literally means to assist or to guide, to be a helper. So as a death doula, I'm helping people who are usually diagnosed with a terminal illness and I'm helping them to transition to the other side. At first it was just the patients, but I also find that I'm assisting the families as well, as they cope with the whole process of having to care, give and also with the process of grief that comes after someone's dying and actually that starts before they die and continues after they die.

Speaker 1: 2:49

Right, so when we talk about transitioning, meaning passing, dying, just so everyone knows, that's just kind of the word that we use. I feel like there's telltale signs and I feel like they can come so much earlier than people think. Will you give us your perspective on that?

Speaker 2: 3:07

Yes. So months before, assuming someone's been diagnosed with a terminal illness and they have months to go, still for several months before they actually start to move into the more actively dying phase. There's a decrease in appetite smaller portions, a little bit more picky eater they're very things that they really used to like to eat. They don't want to eat anymore, or things that they never really cared for. They start to have cravings for. So that part changes. There's also an increase in just a complete lack of eating. So for a lot of us, eating brings us a little bit of joy. We celebrate with food, we celebrate with beverages, and at this point the body starts to have a disinterest in the whole process of eating. So that starts months before someone starts to transition. They also start to sleep more, and this is because once you start eating less right your metabolism drops and so you actually start to move into this, into sleeping more. This is a very physical description, but from a spiritual see, I'm more spiritual, so I start to analyze some of that. That, I think, is a practice of us turning inward. When we're going into sleep more, we're connecting to our inner selves on a different level, and in many cases we're connecting to deceased loved ones or spirit beings and just a different, higher level of connection. So I think that this is an important part of the dying process because it starts us on our practice of connecting and turning inward.

Speaker 2: 4:38

During this time it can be hard for families because there's also an increase in pain and an increase in nausea, and so you bring in nurses and doctors and different medications to kind of help cope with that, and there's also a higher risk of infection. So as you're not nourishing your body, your body doesn't heal quite as quickly. The skin is an organ too right. So if you're bedridden you're more susceptible to, you know, wounds that have bed sores, things like that. And if you're not getting the right, proper nutrition and everything, the organ just doesn't maintain very well and so there's an increased risk of that as well. And of course, due to the lack of eating and lack of exercise there's, you know, you start to lose weight, like that's. Those are the months before. It could be several months and it's a slow process, but we can now move in, if you'd like, to the one to two weeks prior which starts to kind of shift from that. Or if you have any questions around the months before. We can address that too.

Speaker 1: 5:38

I do have questions around the months before because I feel that in my own personal experience it's been so different. They always say hindsight is 20-20. And when you look back and I think of and maybe you can also shed light on this looking at someone's actual physical actions, where they're starting to nest, organize, organize, give away things, I have found to be very big telltale signs, not when I was in it, but now that I look back I'm like, oh, this makes so much sense now why there was need to have control around. Where is everything? Is everything in the right place? Is everything in order? And just this as you're describing with the food and exercise.

Speaker 1: 6:27

It's sort of it's almost like this pulling away from our 3D world, making sure everything is set there so that I can begin to let go of that, to go into the more physical, spiritual realm of being getting into the major transition. And I think that for me, when I've seen it with my family, now, when I think back, I'm thinking at least a year out For some, when they were sending things, getting rid of things, making things were in order, having those special conversations that seemed to have come out of nowhere. What do you think about all that, gretchen?

Speaker 2: 7:02

So I believe that that's another area. So when we first get diagnosed, we have sort of stages that we go through of grief, right? Kubler-ross once said you know she has her book of all the processes of grief and the stages people go through. I have found it not to be fully accurate, like it's not always in that order and some people do some of them and not all of them, but I understand that this was sort of a broad interpretation to kind of guide people through the process.

Speaker 2: 7:31

Whenever someone receives a terminal diagnosis and they are told, oh, you've got like a year to live. At first that's really, you know that it's upsetting. But if you have a loved one who starts sending you her favorite shirt or a piece of jewelry or something like that, that's a stage where she has reached acceptance and a knowing that, yes, I am going to die in the next year and it's not close enough that the fear has set in all the way. I still have time. And so now, what can I do with the nesting? You know how can I make everything around me and everyone around me as comfortable as possible before this big event?

Speaker 1: 8:08

And do you think too, gretchen because in term I don't want to say that it's easier, but when someone does receive a terminal diagnosis, that's pretty head on, like you just know what's going on. But for those that have a serious diagnosis but maybe have not been given a timeframe or know that their exit is probably not as long off as they thought, but there's no reference to it Do you feel that it kind of plays out the same way? Or do you feel that around that there's actually even more anger, fear, or do you feel the stages play out kind of the same?

Speaker 2: 8:49

I feel well. The stages play out differently, I think, for everybody. But, for example, when my grandmother was given a, when she was told she had cancer and she had about two and a half years, she thought she still had time to fight it. What else can I do a little bit differently? She wanted to make some changes. So she had all this hope still. So, even during that process, she's gifting out things to people and she's making sure her paperwork is in order, just in case, worst case scenario. But she still had this hope.

Speaker 2: 9:18

So when people move to a place where it looks like treatments aren't going to work anymore and there's the awareness that their death is impending starts to come in, well, then we start to move through more anger, especially if someone has decided treatments aren't for them at all. We can have that anger, and that anger is so important because it's their zest for life, you know. And they're just like what? This is unfair. What is happening? I'm a good person. Why do good people what does this happen to? Good people and bad people for lack of a better word are out there still, you know, thriving.

Speaker 2: 9:55

So people start to do different things. They enter denial sometimes or they bargain. They're like if I could just make it to my son's graduation, if I could just make it to my daughter's wedding, things like that. It's holding out hope. But it's sort of like also letting go of the idea you're starting the process of surrendering and so that is just such an important process and to know that, as you're going through them, you're going through them and it's just right for you. There's no judgment on the way that you're grieving, because people grieve. They grieve breakups and divorces and losses of jobs and having to sell a home or move. Of course you're going to grieve over the idea of a terminal illness or the loss of a loved one. So these are all big concepts that our psyches have to adjust to.

Speaker 1: 10:42

Right. And what about for the people that are dealing with the idea of I'm not going to be here forever, and I know that and or a terminal illness, that period that sometimes you see where people get really angry and they're lashing out at everyone and everything around them? What can you say to help those people that are everyone and everything around them? Because sometimes people will say, well, they'll make up that excuse, well, you know they're in this situation. So, of course, but but you know, sometimes it goes a bit past that, and so I want people to understand that Well, yes, we want to have compassion and grace with people. There's also that point where you, as yourself, have to have a healthy boundary, and I think that so many people just give so many passes that they just get steamrolled, and so I know it's sort of going into both the topics we want to talk about, but I wanted to help people address that too, because people don't know how to navigate that.

Speaker 2: 12:36

That is probably one of the hardest parts to navigate, because when the person is angry and you're correct, I see it all the time sometimes the anger goes above and beyond many loved ones' boundaries and, yes, you're correct, offering compassion and grace and understanding to what they're going through, but at the same time it's so hurtful and you don't want to remember your loved one that way. You don't want to end on a negative note in some way. So that's a really difficult one to navigate. At times I have found that the angrier a person is, the more misunderstood they feel and the more disconnected they feel. So oftentimes, a disconnection from their loved ones, a disconnection from self, a disconnection from source, leads to a feeling of isolation and people lash out in anger.

Speaker 2: 13:30

If someone is already actively experiencing that, taking time away from that person especially if you're because people are not angry typically in the last hours before death. Okay, so you know that you can step back, take a breather, let everybody reprocess, and that they're still going to be there tomorrow. So it's important to remember that, especially if they haven't reached the stages of actively dying. I have had a few patients that enter the unconscious phase as angry as they were the moment that they started becoming angry. In that phase it's rare, and the reason it's rare is because when people are given a terminal illness, a diagnosis of an illness, and they also have supportive family, people try to work with them. But when people are in denial for so long and let's say it's a cancer diagnosis, for example, and it can be aggressive and so maybe it changes it to a month or two some people don't have time to work through that anger. And so, while it's rare, it does happen, the important thing is, if you see someone getting angry, is to help them initially work through that anger.

Speaker 2: 14:37

You can of course, course, take a breather, set your boundaries. You have to know your loved one. Okay, so I had one patient who was so extremely angry at the idea that he hadn't accomplished everything he'd wanted to accomplish, but he kept putting off next year, next year, next year because he was such a dedicated employee, he loved to work, and then he regretted that. So, understanding that someone who's angry is often feeling like they haven't accomplished their goals, and then finding small goals, understanding what it is that they want to do and helping them achieve small goals, can help them take bigger steps to finding the freedom from that anger. That's just one way.

Speaker 2: 15:17

So one example would be this gentleman who was extremely angry, felt like he never had the opportunity. He bought a bike, had been sitting in his garage for two years Now. He was not physically able to do it to ride that bike. His loved one attached some sort of device to the back of his bike and took his loved one on this bike ride. So it's small things that we can do. Yes, they can't ride the bike, but they could still go on that bike ride and doing small things like that, knowing the accomplishments that they felt they never got to achieve, and giving them a little bit of hope shifts someone's perspective and it also helps them to feel loved, and when we feel loved, it's hard to be angry with the person we love. Someone mentioned to me that Michelle Obama's quote was it's hard to hate up close. I really like that quote because when you're really close with someone, it's hard to have anything but love and understanding.

Speaker 1: 16:10

Absolutely I agree with you on that part and I think that that was such a good explanation to give, and I thank you for that, because it is challenging when you're dealing with someone who is so angry at everything or anything no matter what it is the sky is blue, no, it's purple, you know, kind of thing and to be able to say it's okay to the permission that you just gave so many people to step back and to take a moment for themselves and to know that that self-preservation, that's not selfishness is so important.

Speaker 2: 16:44

Oh, I mean, you're still alive and you still have, you don't need to be run into the ground. And also, that person needs time it sounds like to oftentimes process on their own, you know. And we turn inward and again, whenever that self-reflection takes place, we start to be kinder to those around us, but not if they're a constant punching bag and so knowing that they still have tomorrow because they haven't entered the actively dying phase, for example, or maybe even a few days or weeks or even months, depending on how angry they are and when it sets in. But you have time to set a boundary, to step back, to take deep breaths and to give them time to process what they're going through. And they already believe you don't know what you're going, you don't understand, you're not going. How could you possibly? You're not going through what I'm going through. And if they're unwilling to join a support group, which many are, because they're too angry to join that support group, then giving them time to self-reflect on their own is a really good avenue.

Speaker 1: 17:39

Right. I think that's excellent advice. I just feel like this huge ah from so many people that are going to be listening because that's exactly what they needed to go, okay, you have to self-preserve to truly be there, because it is, in most circumstances, a marathon. It is not a sprint, generally speaking, with what? The topic that we're speaking of today.

Speaker 1: 18:01

So, when we get back to more of the physical signs and we talked prior in our other podcast about how important it is to have someone like you have hospice come in, because there's just this essence of y'all just know and it's it's been amazing in my experience and even having gone through it a couple of times when you're in it, it's like the first time all over again, I feel like until it just I don't know what it hits and it sits a different way. And so when we get back to the food aspect, which I feel that comes, like you said, pretty close. If we back up a little bit before that and after the gift giving and the clearing of that, what comes through that next? And I wanted to say my time with hospice I feel like they had a book that said that I don't remember if it was the 12 stages. Do you remember this of death and dying? Is that what it? I can't remember off the top of my head.

Speaker 2: 19:04

I can't remember the number of stages, I just kind of have the stages in my head of what they are, of what to look for, and sometimes you know, sometimes you miss one, right, they're not. Sometimes someone doesn't get the surge of energy, right? You know that?

Speaker 1: 19:18

rallying yes the rallying, so that now you tell me so. I've seen that in both my family and in my kitty cat. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna cry. Before he passed. And it was this miraculous rally of energy. And oh my gosh, look at what you're doing. You're doing this, you're doing that, and I remember the same thing before my grandfather died. All of a sudden he's out there and he's playing cornhole out of nowhere and God bless him. It was the coolest thing. And I got the video of the day and I thought, well, happy dog gone. Maybe I'm wrong. That rally, I think, is so important for people to hear us speak about, because if you can recognize that and hold on to that moment.

Speaker 2: 20:07

That's everything. Yes, and it's not a gift that's given in every circumstance, so it's really a treasured experience. If your loved one does have a rally, one to two weeks before a person starts the transitioning process, obviously there's an even greater need to sleep and they start taking in a lot less food. They would go days between eating sometimes and even up to the point of you know you're thinking are they ever going to eat again? But that's also because as the organs start to slowly shut down, they start to slow the gastrointestinal processes that are happening. They're starting to slow. So putting forcing a loved one to eat, for example, can cause a lot of discomfort because they're not able to digest it as effectively anymore and it just kind of sits in there. I see it all the time. People are like if I could just get them to eat, you know they'll get more energy if I could just. But their body isn't processing it anymore, it's not digesting in the same ways. So that's important to remember as well.

Speaker 1: 21:05

Go ahead, I've never, and I've never thought of it that way. The digestive part, the actual, because, again, when you're in that moment, you're just even as spiritual as I am. You know, when I remember with my grandfather, like I was just in that moment, I wasn't thinking about, well, he's transitioning in this. You know, I was just exactly what you're saying and I can remember he was in the hospital and I just had this, this hit of he needs a steak dinner and he needs a glass of wine, and it was during COVID, and so only one person could be in the room at the time. So I had called a family member and said this is what I need, and we brought it up and it was just he barely, it was just the idea that he could put it in his mouth and taste it. The wine, however, he definitely did sip, and that was just so beautiful and it was just so wonderful to be able to give him that.

Speaker 1: 22:00

And even now, like I think back, like what an amazing moment that I got to have with him. But I wasn't looking at it the way I am now. It was sort of like, oh okay, well, like you said, like you want something to eat, but it was. It was sort of that last. It was really the last meal at that point and it was just a little. You know just the taste of it. That's the best part of eating anyway.

Speaker 2: 22:21

The taste Right. There's just the taste of it Right.

Speaker 1: 22:23

Yeah, but that's so profound, I mean, I find it to be so profound that we don't think about. We think about like organ shutting down. On the logical sense, right, is that the doctors are talking to you, but we don't think about it. On that essence of it's, really, I think of it. Now, hearing it from you is the spirit detaching from the actual body. Suit meaning S U I T, wow, oh, my goodness. Okay, go on.

Speaker 2: 22:53

Well, during the last week or two, we see an increase in, well, what doctors will deem as hallucinations I call them visitations but from a strictly physical standpoint it's illusions and hallucinations. Now there are illusions or hallucinations that take place where a lamp in a bedroom someone might perceive to be a standing person over there, or, you know, they hear someone enter the room and the door squeaks and they think there's a mouse in the room or something like that. So there are like little things like that, that sort of happen that you're like, okay, I know there's probably not, you know, a spirit mouse in the room that they're trying to tell me about. But there is a shift in the way our brain and chemicals in our brain and our neuropathways are all operating that we perceive things a little bit differently. However, I kind of think it's interesting that, let's say, there's a lamp in the room and it's on, and they think it's a person. Well, maybe that's because they're already seeing beings of light, and so it's very similar to the encounters that they've already been having.

Speaker 2: 23:56

Oftentimes, when people are sleeping a lot, though, and they're having these encounters on an inward sort of experience, it's so important because it eases their fear around the process of dying. They're in two worlds at once and they start to feel like it's okay and safe for them to move on. They also get profound wisdom from these deceased loved ones or beings of light angels, whatever you want to call them, and any little piece of that that they feel like sharing. You know we hold on to it. It's kind of like if someone were to wake you up and you're just coming out of a sleep. There's so much happening, but you maybe only say a word or two, and so trying to get your loved one to express more of what they're seeing if it's in any way divine and brings you hope is really exciting, and I take it on as a personal challenge. Tell me more about this being. But that increases in the week or two before before the actual transition.

Speaker 1: 24:50

And that is such a special time. And I know for some and maybe you can speak to this a little bit I learned this. I didn't, I never thought of this before. When people generally and I'm just going to talk about being in hospice, that was my experience when they're receiving morphine and they swab the mouth, I didn't, I had no idea about this that it actually begins to numb your vocal cords and that, in fact, is why people sometimes I'm going to say not everyone lose the ability to actually begin to vocalize at that point in time because the vocal cords are becoming numb or you're not able to use them.

Speaker 1: 25:35

And that was my experience with two relatives that passed. I didn't know that at the time. I've learned that since. But what I want to encourage people is, if that is something that maybe happens, where maybe your loved one can't speak is, you can still ask for nods and winks and squeeze my hand, and it doesn't mean that they're not there in that room with you, that they don't understand what you're saying. It's now your turn to sort of bridge that gap to the best of the ability so that they can still have that connection and that communication. It's just a little different.

Speaker 2: 26:10

Absolutely. That's well said. The swabbing of the mouth is sometimes done with just plain water and I do find that to be important because if you can keep the tongue kind of moist and the lips kind of moist, it does keep them able to communicate a little bit longer, you know, because otherwise you get kind of croaky. You know, but at that stage, one to two weeks before their congestion increases, their vitals change, their temperature changes, their blood pressure and pulse could change, but also it could stay as awesome as ever. You know their pulse and their vitals, but that's just whenever we can start to see changes.

Speaker 1: 27:37

One of the things that I noticed, this last time that I've really spent a lot of time thinking about sorry, when my grandfather was passing, I noticed how rigid his body got and just how painful it was and that was challenging to see. And it happened very quickly because in the hospital they could, you know, turn and move in. But when we got to hospital and it was like within 24 hours, I would say tops, and I would say with in that time period it probably was within another 24 hours. That that's when he passed. His body was very just rigid and and wasn't quite moving or mobile, I guess is the best way to say it.

Speaker 2: 28:23

Yes, and that happens, you know, within a days or hours of the actual transition, there's this kind of there's this restlessness, this discomfort that's kind of happening. Sometimes people will pull the sheets off of them. They're, you know they're, but are they hot? You're thinking are they hot or are they cold, and you're trying to tend to that, but really they're just. It's almost like, you know, if you just want to make a fist, all the time it's discomfort and they can't get comfortable and there's all this stuff happening and changing, both in their spiritual eyes and in their physical eyes. And so it's just this really difficult to watch, yes, but uncomfortable time in the dying process.

Speaker 2: 29:07

It doesn't last a very long time, but it does mean that you're really close at that point and to you know to bring in your loved ones and that restlessness can be verbalized, and sometimes they could already be beyond that being verbal with the restlessness.

Speaker 2: 29:24

But for me that's such a beautiful sign because they're at death's door at that point and you start to kind of shift your energy and blend with them in a different way and you can't, unless you're bringing in morphine, you really can't bring them physical peace and I found, like with my grandfather when he hit that restlessness phase as the body starts to stiffen and he just can't get comfortable.

Speaker 2: 29:53

And is he hot, Is he cold? The sheets are kind of moving off of him and all sorts of things. He was already communicating with the spirit world and he was trying to release that physical body. And that physical body is just heavy and you no longer. The spirit is no longer having control and using it as a, as a personal vehicle anymore, so it's starting to just kind of weight itself and be on that bed. I think it's a beautiful part of the experience, but for someone watching it could be very you know, very heartbreaking, because it appears they're suffering but their soul is already elsewhere. It's already experiencing a different type of reality, even though they haven't fully let go of their physical body.

Speaker 1: 30:36

Right, oh, my gosh, sorry, I'm such a no, it's good Because it just takes me so back and I just wish that and that's why it was so important. I want everyone to know for Gretchen to come back and I'm so honored that she would come back and do this because we all have so many people, it feels like right now, that are transitioning. Understand during a time that seems so understandable, I guess, is the best way if that's a word People know I like to make up words that if we can just give you one sense of peace for yourself, because I know that, gosh, I had no idea this podcast was going to be so important. There was a moment with my grandfather after that where the last time that I saw him was he was struggling to roll over and he was in pain, and I can remember being like I wanted to go back and see him and the feeling was like I think we should let him rest, we'll see him in the morning, and I really wish it was the one time. I'm like why do I listen? I never listened to these people. Why was I listening to them that day, you know?

Speaker 1: 31:44

And then in it was in the wee hours of the morning that he passed, there's a sense of relief of you saying well, the spirit, when I should know being whom I am.

Speaker 1: 31:53

But again, when you're, when you're in it, you just and there's always going to be family drama or whatever is going on. But to know that at that point we had actually had our last moment, probably about five minutes prior, and by that I mean he wasn't going to drink for anybody or do anything. But when he saw me and looked at me, there was just such a connection. And this nurse came over and said you know, they always have a favorite, and I know that while that hurt other people in my family favorite, and I know that while that hurt other people in my family, we just had a very, very special relationship that nobody actually ever knew about. And so, my God, I'm a hot little mess here today. Gretchen, I want to thank you for validating and bringing peace to my heart in knowing that at that point in time, I want to believe that he really was transitioning while I was there, which he was, I mean theoretically he was but really that that you know, I didn't have to actually be there for the final breath.

Speaker 1: 33:02

Right Like that was it for me, because that has weighed heavily on me for quite some time.

Speaker 2: 33:11

The final breath is not the most important aspect of the dying journey and a lot of people it's really important. They really want to be there for that final breath. They think that that's their way of being supportive and letting their loved one know that they're not alone in that process, and so they really put a lot of weight behind that final breath. But the dying process is so much bigger than that and in my experience so far, people are separating and stepping outside of their bodies during that final week. Pretty frequently. They don't go too far, you know, and they're clearly not transitioning all the way over.

Speaker 2: 33:46

At least I haven't seen that yet but maybe they are and coming on back, I don't know Right, they're already stepping out and they're so aware of the amount of love that people are pouring into their life and their death, the amount of love and heartbreak that their families are experiencing around their life and their death. Your grandfather probably went and checked you out, you know. Maybe he walked you to the door of the nursing home or hospital that he was in. Maybe he drove with you home. You know he's already moving, you know, in between worlds and I think that when people recognize that that's happening and I know we've talked about this on a different podcast but when you can allow yourself to have those shared death experiences and connect with your loved ones before they transition and be able to have those moments after they transition, it's life-changing. But I also want to say something to you, because I know that you're a very spiritual person and so I know that you're saying you know, I should have known. You know, I don't need to hear it. Yes, absolutely.

Speaker 2: 34:56

When you're helping someone else die who's not your family or your loved one, it is a lot easier when it's your loved one and your family. That heart connection has been there for so long. It is hard and knowing what you know, it doesn't matter, because you're so present in the moment and trying to do whatever you can for that loved one and you're so in your own pain and hurt too, but trying not to let them feel anything but love. That is a hard place to be. But when you're a third party coming in, such as me, I love your loved one, I have unconditional love for them, I respect them, but it isn't my loved one. So, like you said, why didn't I know better? Why didn't I? Because it was your loved one and it is different.

Speaker 1: 35:43

Right, and I remember, in the first podcast that we did, you talked a lot about the differences of how you can be there for that person while they're transitioning, and those special loving moments, and we talked about how which was so interesting now that I think about this my grandmother, who had passed in long before she passed, was showing up in my intuitive readings with other people, which was wild.

Speaker 1: 36:13

She also had dementia, though, so we had talked about that, so it is so interesting if we can be open, because, now that you say it, there is no doubt in my mind when I recollect where I went and everything after that, and my grandmother, yes, is always by my side. I went and everything after that, and my grandmother has, or my grandmother, yes, is always by my side. My grandfather was immediately by my side the next day, which is and is always around, which is such a blessing, but it's so hard when it is your loved one and you as a person are navigating this 3D world and the spiritual world and trying to grieve as a human being in this body, yet trying to be so excited to communicate in the spiritual world. It definitely it's a wild ride.

Speaker 1: 37:02

It's a wild ride to do both, because there are some moments this morning I had it where here we have this full moon eclipse coming in and it's such an emotional time and I was out on my walk and I was just started crying out of nowhere and talking to my grandfather saying how much I missed him and he was like but you know, I've been right by your side all the time. He literally is just in a hot moment right here.

Speaker 2: 37:21

Got goosebumps with that. What's that?

Speaker 1: 37:23

I got goosebumps when you're talking about him being right there he's been my I mean he was, for all intents and purposes, my dad, my everything. But yeah, it's just so interesting and again, it just goes back to why you and I both felt this was so important for people to hear all of this, to know all of this and to digest it in a way of you and I are just two human beings here having this human experience, that are blessed to have gifts that we have. And if we can help the process to be a little bit easier for someone else because it isn't an easy process whether it's someone you know or don't know, it's still going to have its challenges. They're just present differently.

Speaker 2: 38:06

Absolutely Well said just present differently.

Speaker 1: 38:13

Absolutely Well said. So, wow, wow, I'm glad I got all that out, my goodness, and thank you everyone for bearing with me and sharing my story with my granddad. For those of you who have been around for a while, you know he truly has always been and still is my North Star, so that means a lot.

Speaker 2: 38:27

I think you said something really important, though. You mentioned how your grandfather has become a strong connection with you or continued a strong connection with you after he passed. I feel like, for people who are open to that, sometimes your relationship with that person actually improves after they transition. And I know how unorthodox that can sound because the conversation can seem very one-sided if you're not practicing regularly and I get that, but I can.

Speaker 2: 38:58

I agree, when my dad transitioned he was such a stubborn guy and he was sometimes very complicated and difficult to be around. I love him dearly but our relationship it was never him dearly, but our relationship, it was never a bad relationship, but our relationship absolutely improved after he transitioned. It's like he became a really strong communicator after the fact, and that way his death was just so divine. It actually did so much good for my life and my teachings and the stuff with my children and my partner, my husband. So sometimes, if you want to consider it and you may not consider it in the moment when you're going through it but someone's death, someone's transition, can actually be something that's for a bigger, greater purpose, a higher, greater good, and in the case of my father, I absolutely believe that it was.

Speaker 1: 39:48

Oh, my goodness, absolutely, and thank you for sharing that. It so resonates. I lost a friend this past week and it was completely out of the blue. No one saw this coming. It was a catastrophic event and this person was doing something huge for humanity in this world and we had done a podcast and I remember saying so many times I am actually really worried about your safety. Are you protected because of the work this person was doing?

Speaker 1: 40:15

And when he passed and I received the information, I remember sitting there being like, oh my, as a human, I was just so shocked. And then I realized and I said you did all you could here. You needed to be on the other side to complete what you're doing. Yes, absolutely Steadfast, and so much, so much easier for him on the other side, which I know. Some people are probably like these two are crazy and maybe we are to you and that's okay. I'm fine with being a little cuckoo, but sometimes we need to look at things to the best of our ability. And I know, gretchen, in the last podcast we talked about, when someone does transition, how to communicate with them, because a lot of people are like, well, these two like how do you do it, but everyone has the ability, if you're okay, to tap into it.

Speaker 2: 41:05

Yes.

Speaker 1: 41:06

And maybe we can sort of shift into that at this point, talking about what happens next.

Speaker 2: 41:14

Okay, so well. For me, the next step would have started with the first diagnosis of the terminal illness, and I would advise for anyone who's open to it, I would advise both the patient and the families to go ahead and start a regular practice of reflecting and turning inwards. Some people call it meditation, but if I call it meditation, it's meditation with the intent to connect to something greater than myself, not just meditation to clear my mind and try to find inner peace and silence. My meditations are always active because I want to connect. That's my goal, and I encourage everyone dying or supporting the dying to go ahead and start a practice if they don't already have one. This will make the process so much easier, actually for the rest of your life and beyond. So I would start there.

Speaker 2: 42:02

If you didn't start there with a regular practice and your loved one has just transitioned many times, the energy behind someone who's newly transitioned is so strong that usually people who don't even have a connection to spirit in any way can usually feel the presence or the essence of their deceased loved one, and it can be. So it could feel like just feels, like they're in the room with me right now and yet you don't see anything. Or it could be like oh my gosh, I don't know. I'm just I thought I felt someone touch my shoulder and then I turn around no one's. It could be anything but the signs that come from recently deceased loved ones.

Speaker 2: 42:41

I don't know what it is, but recently deceased tend to have a lot more I don't know superpowers than people who have been transitioned for a while, and maybe it's the energy behind that grief that we're all pouring into that person, that love that just happened, all that energy, and so maybe it fuels them in some way. But I would start there learning how to connect and being open to every single possibility. Write them down or you will forget them. Write them down and then you become more discerning. When you go back and you look what you wrote a year ago, you were like oh well, that was. You know, I can discern so much more now without my own personal judgments getting in the way.

Speaker 1: 43:18

So that's how I would start. That is excellent advice. I wish I had written everything down. Yes, because and then it validates more because I, as you go on, or as time goes on, since someone has passed, the way that they interact, the way that you interact, it's more subtle sometimes, and so by being able to go back to maybe whatever you've written and or remembered to that moment, you can go. Oh yeah, this makes sense because of whatever it may be, and we've talked before about how to connect with someone and maybe you ask for a specific sign from that person so that you understand. But you also have to be open to, even if you ask for a specific sign, that it can come in different ways than what you think. Right, you just can't just have your blinders on when it comes to someone passing.

Speaker 1: 44:13

I remember when my granddad passed, my mom had always wanted she had asked for tennis balls. Like if I see a tennis ball, it means you're around, because he was such an incredible Olympian when it came to tennis. And I remember her being very frustrated because right away I was getting all these messages and I was delivering them, and she was frustrated, and rightfully so, and I walked up to her house, I can't make this up. And there's this chewed tennis ball sitting out in front of the house and I said, mom, how long is the time? That damn thing is still out there. Mom, it's a tennis ball. That was your, just because it wasn't a brand new tennis ball. It didn't, that was it. Or it could be maybe someone playing tennis on television, or it could be. You drive past a car and it has. You know it's. So we have to stretch our minds as to how what we ask for, how that shows up.

Speaker 2: 45:04

Absolutely. And you know I take it a step further. I don't actually pick the sign. I let my team and spirit pick the sign. So I'll say okay, guys, I'm going to need a sign to validate this message or to validate this information in some way, and the sign I'm going to see in the next day, if not sooner, is and I let them drop it into my mind, whatever the first thing that comes in, because they have a little bit of a heads up over what I'm going to be encountering in the next couple of days. You know, and it could be something so simple, like if I saw a rose, well then, if I'm driving through you know a drive-through, and the person's name tag says rose, or they have a rose tattoo, it's not going to be someone coming up and saying here's a rose for you. I don't know why I feel like I need to give this to you. It's not that obvious, but I do let spirit usually drop the sign in for me, because they know what I'm about to encounter.

Speaker 1: 45:54

I love that. I remember the first time after my granddad I used to call him Pop-Pop when he passed and I found a dime. And see, he was always about, like you always have a hundred dollar bill in your wallet. He always had cash stashed right in the house and I was like I just knew I'm like okay, dimes are your thing. He would never send me a penny, so dimes were always his thing. And now there's certain license plates. That happened to me just yesterday. I used to always get license messages through a certain state license plate. I used to always get messages through a certain state license plate, but now that I'm in that state it's hard to decipher. So he has transitioned it to a Maryland license plate, which I'm not there. And so yesterday I was having all these conversations with Spirit and literally in front of me. I mean it couldn't have gotten more obvious with the Maryland license plate and exactly what it said and I thought, wow, I love when things are that clear and that concise and it's just so special when that happens.

Speaker 2: 46:57

It is and I need big signs. I usually tell my team in spirit you guys need to hit me at side the head with it because I will walk on past. So, yes, the signs are so important and it brings us like peace and hope. It's just, it's beautiful.

Speaker 1: 47:12

It really does, and you just know that you're not alone. It may feel, it can feel very lonely when someone passes, but the truth is is in your life in general. I want everyone to know that you are never alone. There is a team of angels and guides and people that are around you, and it's just up to us to remember that we have to ask for assistance, because if we don't ask, they cannot help us, and so that asking process, you know, is so important and to stay connected, and I hope that, as we transition our conversation, that this encourages everyone listening that it's okay to receive the messages. You're not crazy and how special are you that you're able to get it and keep working with it and playing so that you can even have a better connection and relationship to spirit and to the universe.

Speaker 2: 48:08

I love the word playing because you don't want to take it too seriously. Spirit loves to follow the excitement, your own joy, and it just comes so easily whenever you allow yourself to surrender and just be okay with whatever outcome it is and not have forced ideas and expectations.

Speaker 1: 48:26

And so beautiful. So, as we've worked through transitioning and now we're kind of on the other side physically and spiritually, what are things that we can do to help ourselves and to help families and to help those around us? Now that someone has transitioned, what are you think are the top few things that are important for self and for those around?

Speaker 2: 48:53

us. So the number one thing for me and it won't be for everyone is to maintain that feeling of connection with spirit. That aside, let's say that you're dealing with people who are not fully open to that. Self-care is very important. What does self-care mean to you? You know, for some it's a bath, for some it's a hike. You know, getting away canoeing.

Speaker 2: 49:14

I don't know it's going to be different for everybody, but self-care is something that really needs to be brought to the forefront. It's so easy to put ourselves on the back burner. And two, if you are worried about someone else who's maybe taking the loss a little heavier than you are, you know, step in and take care of some of their chores for them and give them the opportunity to have time for self-care.

Speaker 2: 49:35

Support groups are another really important aspect of not allowing yourself to feel isolated and depressed, because depression grief is a trigger for depression frequently, and if you allow yourself to feel isolated, where you're not leaving the house or you're not getting out anymore and you start to have your joy sucked out of you in that way, having a support group at the very least, someone you can talk to, and actually being vulnerable and open up. But a support group helps you feel like you're not alone. There are other people going through this process and maybe the information you share will be helpful for someone else. And when you feel you're being helpful it sort of enlivens that sense of purpose and meaning within your own life again and there seems to be just a boost in someone's peace and love for themselves and others when they can be of service in that way. So I would suggest some of those things definitely.

Speaker 1: 50:25

That's beautiful, and I remember I had a friend who was on the podcast who was diagnosed with cancer three different times and it was interesting to receive her perspective. The one thing that she said that I think people kind of forget is she's like it meant so much to me the day that someone sent me paper towels from Costco. She couldn't go out, she couldn't get them and she was like that was just so thoughtful. Paper towels like you don't need to. She's like don't come, don't talk my ear off. Those paper towels were amazing and I think it goes back to. It really is about the little things in life. Think about when you're sick and you don't feel good, and that's when you're vulnerable and you're so emotional. What do you really want? Maybe a little cup of soup and maybe just leave it. Maybe just have groceries. I'm a big thing on that. I'll have groceries delivered for friends when they're not feeling well, because I know that's something that I would love to do. But not everybody thinks of those things.

Speaker 1: 51:21

They think it has to be something grandiosus or a giving of your time or a sacrifice of something from you, and it really doesn't have to be. It's just what that person would like. Think about what means the most, what could ease their moment, their day, and it really comes down to the little stuff.

Speaker 2: 51:41

I'm glad you mentioned that. And yes, a lot of people don't feel that they're looking their best when they're going through treatments, or they just can't seem to get out of bed if something's already happened and they're grieving and they're just feeling like they're a mess and they haven't showered, they don't want to see, they don't want to entertain. No, so leaving the soup at the door is great, delivering those paper towels, you know, it doesn't have to be flowers and a cake and a bottle of wine or anything like that. Right, you're right.

Speaker 1: 52:06

Right, yeah, it's just those little things that people just need to know, especially if it's someone who might not be as wonderfully kooky as Gretchen and I. You know, they just need to know that somebody is there and someone cares. And even with that being said, you know Gretchen and I are human and of course, we need that same thing too. But yeah, because remember, every time that you give, you're opening that door to receive the same thing too. But yeah, because remember, every time that you give, you're opening that door to receive the same thing back to you, and you're going to need that, maybe next week. Maybe you don't need it today, but maybe next week.

Speaker 2: 52:40

That's a good point. I'd also like to suggest to anyone who's open to it, and even to skeptics, to consider if you will just entertain the idea of reaching out to a medium. Consider if you will just entertain the idea of reaching out to a medium after the loss of a loved one. Most of my friends who have lost someone who have also gone to see a medium, whether they were skeptics or not, found so much healing. It takes, I don't know, weeks, months off your healing process to be able to connect to that loved one in spirit with an evidential medium.

Speaker 2: 53:11

An evidential medium is someone who can give you evidence that your deceased loved one is still there and it could be silly little things that you know that maybe there's no way else that anyone else would know that you just did those things, and an evidential medium can provide that information based on the information they're receiving from your deceased loved one. It's amazing how much healing takes place, how much inner peace follows after a good mediumship reading. So I encourage, even if you're a skeptic, to just go ahead and give it a shot. What have you got to lose?

Speaker 1: 53:43

I'm so glad you just said that you took me back to after my granddad passed and I was having a healing session with a friend who is a medium and he started bringing in all of this information and it was wild and it was funny and it was about a certain whiskey I needed to drink and it had to be good Irish whiskey right off the boat.

Speaker 1: 54:06

It was a brand I never heard of, so I totally thought he was making something up and I went to the store and, lo and behold, there it is. So I always have a bottle of that on me. And there were other things that came through to validate things that I knew or I was suspicious of with my family. Like my grandfather came right through and he was like you need to know everything and here's the truth on everything and you were right. But let's move on. And it was incredibly healing to have that. So I'm so happy that you mentioned that because it was so special. So, beyond the messages I was already receiving, it was just a really special, special time to have a message from him.

Speaker 2: 54:51

Well and, like you said, it can be validating because you yourself are receiving your own messages from your grandfather. But when someone else who doesn't know what you're receiving also receives that love and those messages, it's very, it just it's so validating to your own personal experiences, but it does lift the idea that they're gone forever. It just is a temporary goodbye, you know, and maybe you can connect on your own moving forward with knowing how that feels. But recognizing that they're still right there through an evidential medium is one of the quickest way to jumpstart the healing process.

Speaker 1: 55:25

Absolutely. It's so special and there's so many different kinds of mediums that you can go see. But I really love that you said evidential. Especially for those skeptics, especially for the skeptics, 100%, and we love you skeptics. I love a good skeptic.

Speaker 2: 55:44

I'm one sometimes. For sure, I'm my own worst skeptic.

Speaker 1: 55:48

Sometimes, right, I'm definitely that meme where you ask the universe for a message and you receive it and then you're like, okay, well, did you really? Can I have another? Can we back that up? Like you, I always say it needs to hit me over the head, it has to be undeniable. And then I'm like, okay, I get it, and I love those moments. I feel especially around this time with the full moon and the eclipse. We have such an open doorway to spirit right now. Not that we don't every day, but there are certain days where it's more open. It's like the elevator just right there versus you waiting for the elevator. It's so special and so that I hope people take advantage of those times and they happen all month long, by the way that you can take advantage and you can make your own moment getting out into nature and just being in practice.

Speaker 2: 56:40

Practice practice practice.

Speaker 1: 56:42

Practice that connection if you're open to it. Oh, my goodness, gretchen, I feel like we've had therapy again. I feel like we've had therapy again. This was so much more than what I feel we planned, but yet everything was completely unplanned today, which anyone if you're ever on the show, you know. I always have a roadmap and when Gretchen and I got together today, I said I was guided by spirit, that there was no roadmap, that we were just going to go and go where spirit wanted us to go, which is always how the podcasts are. But today was just so special, with just a zero roadmap, because everyone knows that I was a little something.

Speaker 2: 57:24

No, I think it flowed beautifully. I think we covered a lot of different topics. We touched on a little bit of everything.

Speaker 1: 57:30

Absolutely so. Will you let our incredible community know where can they best get in contact with you so that they could continue the conversation and work with you, whether that's an intuitive reading or with your doula services?

Speaker 2: 57:44

Sure. My website's the best place to go. It's wwwHelenGretchenJonescom, and that information is also found on Amazon and at BarnesandNoblescom, where I have my book.

Speaker 1: 57:58

Yes and oh, please. We on our last I'm sorry, on our last podcast, we covered everything about your book. Tell us about your book so that people can also I think this is a great segue into your book the title, where it came from and why it's so special to you.

Speaker 2: 58:12

Sure, it's called Healing Whispers from Spirit Guides Bridging the Gap Between Life and the Afterlife with the Death, Doula's Wisdom. And it took me about two and a half years to write. And one June morning I woke up to my team in spirit saying you're going to write a book. And I remember thinking, well, I'm not qualified to write a book, and what would I even write about? And they said write what you know.

Speaker 2: 58:33

And so I have been journaling for years the bedside stories of so many of my patients, just for my own personal knowledge and my own little experiments that I'm doing sort of trying to understand the death and dying process. And so it's really beautiful teachings and lessons that I have learned along the way, followed by a really relevant, moving bedside story of one of my patients or clients. And I end each chapter with a channeled message from my team in spirit, who I call the A-Team. So it's a fantastic book, it's one from the heart and I love to hear what people think about it. So email me if you read it and tell me what you think about the book.

Speaker 1: 59:12

Absolutely, and be sure to leave her a review on Amazon and, of course, all of Gretchen's contact information will be over in the show notes on jenniferplottiescom links to her website, to the book, so that you'll be able to get in contact with her. As we close out the show today, gretchen, what is one piece of inspiration that you would like to leave with us today?

Speaker 2: 59:38

Let's see. I suppose the piece of inspiration would be to practice, to go ahead and not wait until you've been given, or a loved one's been given, a terminal illness diagnosis to go ahead and start that connection. It's been my experience so far. I should say that when people are feeling displaced, they're unhappy with their job, they're unhappy with their life in some way, it typically relates to a lack of connection, a feeling of disconnection from yourself or from other people around you, or even from source. And so when people take time to connect to each other and connect to themselves and to connect to something greater than themselves, they find where they're supposed to be, they find that purpose and that meaning, and the other parts of their life seem to fall into place a little bit easier. So I would encourage practicing connection.

Speaker 1: 1:00:29

Beautiful message. I couldn't have said it better myself. Thank you, Gretchen, for making the time today to come back onto the show, to be so open and sharing your knowledge and your energy and helping us all through the process to understand it better and to be able to really grasp and hold on to something, so that for those that maybe aren't as open as us, maybe are skeptic and we love you that it just gives them a little bit of light that might help guide them on that path or, at the very least, be open to exploring it.

Speaker 1: 1:01:03

Absolutely. As always. Again, all of Gretchen's information will be over on the website jenniferpilatescom. Gretchen, thank you you so much. I just love you to pieces, looking forward. So we're gonna be having an intuitive reading. You know this one will not be live. However, I will report back or, who knows, maybe she would say she'll tell me it should be live. We'll see. Well, you can record it and then you can decide that's right, that's what we'll do, we'll record it and then we'll decide. Thank you so much, gretchen. You are such a beautiful light in this world. Decide, that's right, that's what we'll do, we'll record it and then we'll decide. Thank you so much, gretchen. You are such a beautiful light in this world and I'm honored to have you on the show and to know you and thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 1:01:40

It's an honor to be on your show and I'm happy to know you as well. I look forward to our intuitive reading together.

Speaker 1: 1:01:44

Me too. Well, head over to jenniferplottiescom, where you can get all of Gretchen's information. Check out the sponsors for today's show and, as you move forward in life, remember to always live an empowered life from within. Thank you so much for tuning in to another episode. Please remember to rate, review and subscribe to Empowered Within with Jennifer Pilates. Your feedback is important. It helps me to connect with you and gives me insight into who you are and what you're enjoying about the show. For today's show, notes and discount codes from today's sponsors head over to JenniferPilatescom. Until next time, may you live an empowered life from within.